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Sunny Hundal really is a twat

I was going to list the symptoms of swine flu I’ve been suffering this week. Being ill is fascinating – a tussle between the fragility of life, and the body’s surprising robustness. But just when I was reeling from the third full-sized crap in under an hour (hurrah, my body is working again!) along comes Sunny Hundal’s spectacularly misnomered Liberal Conspiracy with something even more stomach churning…

Sunny’s got the hump with the BBC – hey, haven’t we all – but in his case for daring to have Nick Griffin on Question Time, and for putting up , in Sunny’s view, a “weak” panel to counter him. There’s enough in there for half a dozen blogs – why is it the BBC’s job to choose a panel designed to attack one panel member? Why is this guy so scary, so bad, but also apparantly so able, that he needs to be outgunned in this way? And might it be easier to get a more capable panel if so many cowards in our political class hadn’t adopted an infantile “no platform” position? But this isn’t the worst of it. Hundal reckons you need a special kind of panelist to defeat Griffin, because “The idea that the BNP can be defeated through rational debate and logic is a farce.” Eh?

Yup, the Left that has maintained for decades that the BNP are idiots, evil, criminals etc, and that their policies are childish, ignorant, obviously wrong, and that the things the BNP fights against – immigration, multiculturalism – are so self-evidently good, now admits that…. it can’t win a straight stand up fight on the facts. Doesn’t that mean, Sunny, if you can’t counter their arguments, that they might be right? Ever think of that possibility?

I don’t think they are – entirely – but they do have several points. In this world as it stands today I see no benefit to British working classes of continued mass immigration. I’m figuring Sunny doesn’t either, as this is the BNP’s core point, and it would surely be the key line to attack them on. If you had a good argument. But if you *don’t* have a good argument…. why, then, demand continued immigration?

Hundal, to be fair to the illiberal conspiritor, does suggest an alternative – the BNP needs to be attacked with an alternative emotional narrative. A better story? For fuck’s sake Sunny, is this all you have? If I’d spent a lifetime bottom-feeding in the world of Leftie luvvies and couldn’t concoct a better strategy than that to fight who most Lefties seem to believe is the devil himself, then I’d just give up. It doesn’t only illustrate the intellectual paucity of the Left, but also the complete contempt in which they hold white working class voters. Those poor dumb fucks can’t handle an intellectual argument – they need fairy stories instead. Keerist.

Even Hundal’s fellow travellers below the line seem a little shocked by his contemptuous rejection of argument – they really shouldn’t be. Hundal’s stock-in-trade is to wear the mask of mild-mannered leftie, only occasionally letting it slip to show the true authoritarian stalinist beneath. One wonders if, after the Labour defeat, the reborn party will bear the stamp of him and others like him. He’s certainly up to something…

In any event, tonight’s Question Time will as usual feature the BBC’s secret weapon – the audience. A random selection of the British Public? Oh no no no… that would never do. Nope, all vetted and carefully chosen to produce, say the BBC, “balance”. We’ll see eh?

Oh and to those who might say I should take my argument with Sunny to his blog, well I would, but as he announced this week on yet another thread attacking anyone who doesn’t swallow the global warming scam wholesale, I’m apparantly banned. A troll he reckons. Some new definitions from Sunny: liberalism – a type of politicz in vich zer vill be no dissent! Troll – anyvon who disagees mit me!

 Like I say, he’s a twat.


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24 comments to “Sunny Hundal really is a twat”

  1. You see no benefit towards mass immigration, therefore you want to see the government place more controls on it. And then you call someone who disagrees with this position ‘illiberal’?

    You are demanding more government interference, therefore the onus is on you to justify it. “No benefit” isn’t good enough. You need to demonstrate specific harm.

  2. In an ideal (Libertarian ) world there wouldnt be immigration controls / passports etc . As it stands even ethnic minorities have recently expressed disquiet regarding immigration (specifically eastern europeans ) , and in times of recession , its pretty obvious that continued immigration ( that also means white aussies etc )makes no sense , unless you merely want to undercut the terms and conditions of indigenous british workers ( both black and white). To point this out is not racist .
    Sunny Hundal sadly , is all too representative of the middle class lefty luvy , hypocritical , bullshit merchants that the Gran feels comfortable with . Authoritarian in nature , he fails to see that his brand of politics is no different from the Control Freak tendency inherent in Nulabour and previously the Thatcher regime. In fact its hard to think of any political issue wherein the Gran doesnt automatically tend towards the Authoritarian mindset – check their pro MMGW bullshit propaganda . Liberal these days is merely code for Authoritarian and Sunny and his acolytes are as twisted and full of shit as Nick Griffin anyday .

  3. @Duncan: Oh I can barely be arsed. I’m ill. But okay, there’s overcrowding, pressure on resources (natural and provided), deflationary impact on wages, sustains benefits culture, (this is complexly looped in, I’ll return to that), damaging to national cultural identity – that’s a BNP kind of argument but I dont’ see that rules it out. The french are allowed a culture, the germans are, the irish are – why aren’t we? Some damage is purely what you might call dilution, or even mongrelisation, and that ain’t so bad, but some is an assult on what might once have been considered a core value. I’m afraid I plain do not *like* to see fully veilled women walking down the street. I don’t like it. Religious lunacy is not a british value.

    Now, back to the welfare state – that to me is the greatest “pull” factor. Remove that, and we wouldn’t have such major immigration – so you see it isn’t government action I’m looking for, it’s government inaction. I’m not saying all immigrants are after benefits – rather that because of the welfare system millions of native britons can refuse work, and so we have more jobs available in the system than we should have. This is the “pull”.

    In a purely market driven world, a level playing field, then I’d agree, we wouldnt’ want borders – labour would follow work, we’d have an equilibrium. In this world I don’t see any equilibrium developing.

  4. Anyway …fuck the bbc …lets abolish the bastards …

    http://thedahlbergrepurcussions.blogspot.com/

  5. Couldn’t agree more about Sonny boy. An authoritarian little tosser with a huge ego, a persecution complex and a deletion device with a hair trigger. Never thought I’d say this but after a brief stint on Liberal Conspiracy ending in a ban, I’ve a whole new respect for CIF’s ‘free speech credentials’ ; or rather,I’m unpleasantly surprised there’s an even more desperate liberal idiot censoring his way out of a straight argument.

    Unfortunately for Sonny, he’s hitched his three wheeled wagon to the twin stars of identity and climate change and once he’s challenged and has to reach for ‘evidence’ from either the empty vessel of theory-laden, observation biased, preconceived social science research or ‘a renowned professor of advanced climatology’ from Arizona, he finds he’s been sold a pup and resorts to abuse. Thing is…he’s not very good at it. For someone who strikes a pose as a battle hardened blogging gladiator, his little put-downs are beyond lame. Still, not to worry, there’s always his loyal posse of liberal idiot attack-poodles and the delete button to rely upon…likes to ‘doctor’ discussions does our Sonny to give the impression his faultless logic and rapier wit have won the day yet again. Truly pathetic.

    I tend to come at Sonny and his useful idiot acolytes from an entirely different perspective, but this seems to rile him even more. He’s not happy with the notion of being criticised from the left. How can he be…he is the left. Anyone claiming otherwise is clearly unconsciously racist and a tool of global capitalism conniving in their own destruction.

    Thing is…it’s not even his ridiculous liberal posturing, petulance or authoritarianism that pisses me off any more. It’s the fact that I just know instinctively it’s a personality flaw. He was clearly that most reviled and despised of youngsters: the kid whose mam always bought him a new football, even though he had two left feet and no mates….”It’s my ball and if you don’t let me win, I’m taking it home”. Now he’s ‘grown up’, he’s got the best of both worlds. His own blog…you can hardly nick it, push him into a hedge and fuck off down the park with it….and a bunch of middle-class identity goons playing at being radical to back him up.

    As you so elegantly put it…#Sunny Hundal really is a twat#

  6. Sunny Hundal The Guardians asian Uncle Tom , hes wadical , but he aint radical …

  7. In this world as it stands today I see no benefit to British working classes of continued mass immigration.

    History note: neither did Michael Foot, although he didn’t put it in quite those terms. When Wilson came out for continued membership of the EEC (as it was) in 1975, Foot scratched his head and said “but this means we can’t protect even our own members’ jobs”. Internationalist and twat for believing Stalin though Foot was (and probably still is) he could see that in the end, if you don’t protect what are basically white working-class voters jobs, they won’t vote Labour. The only question, really, is to what extent you defend them.

    Regardless of what one thinks of the economic arguments, politically, Foot was right ; it has just taken about 30 years to deliver what he feared and predicted i.e. the collapse of the white working class Labour vote. However, contrary to melting pot expectations and how it sometimes looks in connurbations, the white working class demographic is still identifiable, strong – and very, very pissed-off.

  8. Never thought I’d say this but after a brief stint on Liberal Conspiracy ending in a ban, I’ve a whole new respect for CIF’s ‘free speech credentials’ ;

    I know what you mean monkeyfish – they were the best of a bad bunch by a country mile, even now they’re still ahead. I have given up trying to post on half the lefty sites around – New Statesman I’ve never got a single post past their moderation, the BBC deletes most, Sunny, dear Sunny, says I’m banned. What’s a chap to do? Good post – a tiny fish in a tinier pond. What do you reckon he’s up to? I would say angling for a Lab shortlist… but there hardly seems much point. And he has been anti-labour – although, on the little things. On afghanistan he’s “on message”.

    WOAR, yeah, anti-EU feeling was standard on the left – even Kinnochio and Tony had their moments. I always had a soft spot for Foot – he was a scruff? So bloody what? That was a nice coat. And you got the impression he was a very intelligent guy, and honest. Utterly deluded of course, but I imagine he’d have been a pleasure to argue with.

  9. Just checked Wiki – he is still with us. He’s 96 – born 1913.

    People forget that he was already 67 when he led the Labour Party from 1980-83, being crushed beneath Mrs T’s tractor tracks at 70 years of age. Clive James wrote a peep-through-your-fingers piece about that election, of seeing a decent old buffer who meant well but was, and probably always had been, hopelessly romantic and unable to grasp at any point that his beliefs no longer mapped on to the real world, if they ever did. Which is odd, because my previous comment was exactly this: he was right but he was right so far ahead of time that it kicked it in to the Nostradamus business rather than normal politics.

    As Wiki says
    “The irony of the 1983 manifesto has not been lost on recent Labour politicians such as Geoffrey Robinson, who remarked when talking of the 2008 credit crunch and the banking crisis, where part nationalisation of the banks has been proposed, that the 1983 manifesto has come into effect twenty five years later. Hardline left-wing Labour Party commentators believe this has given Foot some vindication.”

    Foot was, and is, of finer cloth than the current shysters. As a republican he has never accepted the seat in the Lords or any titles. I have a copy of Gulliver’s Travels to which he wrote the introduction and reading guide; he did a very good job and I agree with the remark on wiki that it’s a pity he gave up literature for politics . He defended Salman Rushdie when lesser politicians were making accommodations with thuggery. If he wasn’t such a deluded collectivist, he’d be exactly what we need.

  10. If he wasn’t such a deluded collectivist, he’d be exactly what we need.

    Dunno about that but the general point stands – we want conviction politicans. Not those who *say* they have convictions. People from left, right and elsewhere with integrity and firm beliefs. The problem with democracy isn’t – as I’ve written before – the politicans; it’s the fucking electorate. We all want bread and circuses. We don’t want hard questions or hard answers. We don’t want to work for, or plan for, or think for the long term. So they all congregate in the middle ground, offering warm words, nice smiles, anodyne pap because this is all the plebs will vote for.

    Demcracy is the problem.

    Having said that, at least Osbourne’s speech had a little pessimism, some grit. Think of a politician with a pessimism these days? Few and far between. We’ve lost this. Everyone wants to be the fucking nice guy.

  11. Yeah…Michael Foot’s a mensch. Least you know where you stood with that guy. I’m even kinda nostalgic for the 80’s…not a hugely successful time for the left but at least you knew where the battle lines were. There was no amorphous mass of idiot liberal relativists queering the pitch with specious post-modern identity guff whose arguments consist of unwarranted conclusions from bullshit premises which rely on socially constructed ‘truths’ with no relation to the actualite. Strangely, the ones to benefit from their policies are the middle-class race /diversity /victimologist / grievance ‘professionals’ who seem to dominate the social debate in this country.

    I was on a train to London about 18 months back sitting opposite a guy who’ left the army a couple of years before and was a sales rep for something to do with plastic. He was reading one of those Bernard Cornwell novels about the 100 years war. I’d never actually read one myself (I did later..it was about Crecy…it was sorta OK for the historical detail, at least, but I wasn’t all that taken) so he was telling me about medieval society. He drew a parallel between the clergy in that period and the vast army of media and public sector liberal professionals. Both claiming a ‘revealed’ wisdom or knowledge, based on little more than faith/ superstition, both entirely self-serving and benefiting nobody outside their privileged ranks, both acting as a drain on each other part of society and, in the main, both roundly despised by everybody else.

    I must admit, I dismissed him at the time as a bit of a right wing loon, but the more I look about and particularly, the more I’m lectured on how to live my life ethically by bourgeois mentalists, claiming an authority based on science (when it suits them) or emotional literacy/ superstition ( when science mysteriously reverts to its role as a tool of the patriarchy and western hegemony), I see his point more and more.

    I’m easily dismissed by such people. My politics are a brand of naive utopianism; a misplaced faith in the power of human agency to achieve progress; a degenerate belief that science and rationalism lead anywhere but to the gates of Auschwitz. Next thing you know, I’m a heretic for ignoring the cast-iron scientific certainty that unless I give up my motor and live in a fuckin teepee, I’m killing all the dolphins and sentencing my grandkids to a life of abject misery and deprivation.

    I’m not sure that their schtick compares especially favourably with the notion of paying a fat friar a few groats to say a mass or two and shorten my time in limbo…least I keep the car and central heating that way.

  12. Moneyfish ; Couldnt agree more , all the more galling when Newsnight (the objective BBC , ho ho ) stick 3 Green experts on to tackle the thorny question of why their ideas arent popular ( cos theyre shit , most people have more sense) ; step forward Zac Goldsmith ( rich beyond your wildest dreams ) Caroline Lucas ( currently pulling in a quarter of a million per year via the Eurobureacracy)and John sauven (Greenpeace – bet hes on a good screw) , wherein they are weakly questioned / allowed to tell any lie they like by Emily Maitlis. Of course if news/current affairs progs are taken up with this meaningless shit , theres less time for real issues like wars , unemployment , the fucked economy etc. So , its not just what the self selected media elite tell us , its what the bastards dont want to discuss ….

  13. There are a few writers on Lib Con I admire – particularly Unity and Cath Elliott who manage to combine passion and journalistic integrity – but Sunny himself is everything you say he is.

    I think you are entirely wrong on global warming but your argument should have been subject to a scientific counter-argument rather than deleted in such a cowardly fashion.

    Incidentally, Sunny is pro-immigration control himself – unlike the more libertarian posters on Lib Con.

  14. Hi guys. I hung around LC (aka Illiberal Agreement) for a while about July/August as part of leaving-Cif-therapy. There are some interesting views there: cheers [raises glass] monkeyfish and shatterface, but Sunny is extremely annoying for all sorts of reasons and there are more tits and cuckoos in his nest than owls. I left with this addressed to one of Sunny’s birds –

    ‘Liberal Conspiracy seems to me to be a bit of a boys’ club (reminds me of Glasgow Uni’s pre-integrated male student union when Charlie Kennedy was prez, but without the laughs) and the banter favoured by you fits that roughhouse setting. And it’s clear that Sunny – who owns the joint – has no problem with it. As someone who drops in from time to time, I have to say I’m not that at ease with the atmosphere so I’ll visit less regularly.’

    The guy wouldn’t engage in debate – just kept telling me to fuck off, so off I fucked. I prefer hangouts like Frank’s, Heresy Corner, the Untrusted and various book nattering cellars.

    I only have a limited amount of time for cybergab and LC is just not much fun, really.

  15. Yeh not keen on Cornwell monkeyfish – something a bit repellent about the violence there, especially against women. Have become a big fan of Julian Rathbone’s historical novels which are cheerfully anachronistic, but like that clock in Julius Caesar, it doesn’t matter; Rathbone has bags of wit and insight. Your guy on the train has a point, but think it ’twas ever thus in all societies. Rathbone makes more original connections, eg between a Shia and the Brethren of the Free Spirit – the eternal freemasonry of heresy.

    Ah, but no more Flashmans or Aubrey/Maturins alas, alas.

  16. Yeah, like I say, I only ever read the one..never had the urge to repeat the experience. With you on Aubrey/Maturin though. Was there ever a truer liberal than Stephen Maturin; a tolerant, open minded renaissance geezer…and no real hint of the ‘free trade connotation’. He’s what a liberal should be.

    Just how many regular posters on Liberal Conspiracy could carry the epithet “open-minded” never mind “tolerant”. They’re like some dead-eyed cult sniffing the web for any sign of deviation from their own brand of identity orthodoxy..so they can instantly take offence on someone else’s behalf.

  17. monkeyfish. if you pop back i should have said

    Yeh not keen on Cornwell either

    I went to the memorial service for Patrick at Greenwich – amazing variety of us there is, you know

  18. He most certainly is.

  19. The cunts at it again … lets ban some nutters cos lickspittle Sunnys masters at Nulabour say so … ffs…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/jan/14/islam4uk-anjem-choudary-free-speech

  20. Yeah I read that and the first thing I thought was, “I should write another blog: The continuing twatishness of Sunny Hundal” – loved his bit about supporting free speech generally; that’d be on illiberal conspiracy would it Sunny? Twat.

    he’s *definitely* after a nulab shortlist

  21. Sunny Hundal makes Keith Vaz look like an honest man of the people ..really ..hes that fuckin bad .. Would love to see him try to get elected … anyone with half a brain would tear him a new one …

  22. With apologies to Boney M

    Sunny thank you for the truth you let me see
    Sunny thank you for the facts from a to c
    The dark days are gone and the bright days are here
    My Sunny one shines so sincere
    Sunny one so true …… ACTUALLY I HATE YOU … YOU FUCKIN TWAT ….

  23. With apologies to Boney M

    Sunny thank you for the truth you let me see
    Sunny thank you for the facts from a to z
    The dark days are gone and the bright days are here
    My Sunny one shines so sincere
    Sunny one so true …… ACTUALLY I HATE YOU … YOU FUCKIN TWAT ….

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